TLHH DC Project: The Great Eye - Concepts & Discussion

[Thranduil]

It took me a while to get my computer going again, but now here I am! And I'm ready with this.


These are my initial thoughts. All comments are of course welcome.


A Note on Format
The poll in the other thread about what format the set should be catering for was incredibly split. So I have decided to make a compromise:

• Legality: I think there's no reason we can't make a set that works with Standard and Movie block. So it will be built for both.

• Shadow cultures: Shadow cultures will be a compromise. We will use , and and obviously , but rather and being splash cultures, they will also be major players. I think this works because the set title The Great Eye does not allow us the luxury of ignoring and , which at any rate have much more evocative flavour than the new cultures. We can also use the keywords for like Southron.

• Sites: The set will use post-Shadows sites. I feel as though making more King sites for Movie Block is difficult and unnecessary. Of course naturally there's no reason why cards built for Shadows sites would not work in Movie Block.

• Resistance/Signets: With the set's themes, I'm not sure we can avoid resistance. But I think we should perhaps include signet love alongside if that's what we want. This in particular I'd like some feedback on.



Set Themes
As far as I can see, the set's themes can be  broken down to these main headings:

• The One Ring: Obviously, this is key to this. Making the RB wear it, corrupting the Ring-bearer, searching for the Ring, burdens and the whole shebang are major players. This can also lead to resistance being important.

• Search/Stealth: Part of the search for the Ring is search and stealth cards as the minions of the Dark Lord try to find the Ring and the Free Peoples try to hide and protect it. This also leads to the natural enmity of trackers/rangers. Connected issues are the Palantíri, Gollum/Sméagol duality, and the Saruman/Sauron conflict.

• Twilight: Hand in hand with the Ring is the creatures In Twilight. Nazgûl and Wraiths are what we've seen before with the twilight keyword, but we can extend its flavour and its relevance.

These themes have led me to think up a few mechanics which I'll share a bit later.



Set Layout:
What I'm currently looking at for set layout is as such:

TOTAL: 250 (115 F, 115 S, 18 Sites, 2 Rings), 90C/80U/70R + 10S

[Cult] No. (C/U/R)   Starters
- 2 (1/0/1)

- 15 (6/5/4)

- 16 (6/5/5)

- 16 (6/5/5)

F - 12 (4/4/4)
S - 12 (4/4/4)

- 21 (7/7/6)        + 1

- 16 (6/5/5)

- 16 (6/5/5)

- 18 (7/6/5)

- 20 (7/6/6)      + 1

- 18 (7/6/5)

- 15 (6/5/4)

- 16 (6/5/5)

- 20 (7/7/6)

- 18 (4/5/1)       + 8







So those are my introductory thoughts. Now, discuss!

[Cw0rk]

If this set is meant to be for movie block fans as well, why isn't there any , or card in there?

I suggest you include 2 P cards in case someone wants to make starters.

EDIT: NVM my first comment as I reread your first post.

[Sam, Great Elf Warrior]

• Legality: I think there's no reason we can't make a set that works with Standard and Movie block. So it will be built for both.

What about power escalation? How do we make cards that are neither weak post-Hunters nor overpowered in Movie?

• Shadow cultures: Shadow cultures will be a compromise. We will use , and and obviously , but rather and being splash cultures, they will also be major players. I think this works because the set title The Great Eye does not allow us the luxury of ignoring and , which at any rate have much more evocative flavour than the new cultures. We can also use the keywords for like Southron.

Do we have anything for or (maybe a Balrog splash like many post FOTR-sets)?

• Resistance/Signets: With the set's themes, I'm not sure we can avoid resistance. But I think we should perhaps include signet love alongside if that's what we want. This in particular I'd like some feedback on.

How about giving companions resistance but having cards like Horn of the Mark that add signets? For that matter, what do you think of making signets more fluid (e.g. "Exert Gandalf and spot an unbound companion of resistance 5 or more to give that companion the Gandalf signet until the end of the turn." or even "Skirmish: Make a companion strength +2 and gain the Aragorn signet.")? I think it might fit the theme of the Free Peoples rallying to fight the Great Eye.

[Thranduil]

If this set is meant to be for movie block fans as well, why isn't there any , or card in there?

Do we have anything for or (maybe a Balrog splash like many post FOTR-sets)?

Here's my take on this: What cards really deserve to be and not ? The Balrog, the Watcher in the Water. That's about it. We could splash some cards, but I feel like very well subsumes its role (there's also no real reason why there couldn't be an Balrog). But essentially, it doesn't quite fill the same flavour niche as or . But yeah, there could be a Balrog. I wasn't sure it was exactly the sort of thing you needed for The Great Eye.

As for and , again my feeling is that both cultures are expressed in the culture and so having all 3 would be a bit ridiculous. I personally like the conglomeration of earlier and strategies, and again we lose hardly anything in flavour by using .

Side note: Also at the moment, quite coincidentally, there are an equal number of Shadow and Free Peoples cultures represented in the set...

How about giving companions resistance but having cards like Horn of the Mark that add signets? For that matter, what do you think of making signets more fluid (e.g. "Exert Gandalf and spot an unbound companion of resistance 5 or more to give that companion the Gandalf signet until the end of the turn." or even "Skirmish: Make a companion strength +2 and gain the Aragorn signet.")? I think it might fit the theme of the Free Peoples rallying to fight the Great Eye.

Yeah, absolutely great! I think that's brilliant. You could also make Shadow cards that care about signets.

I suggest you include 2 P cards in case someone wants to make starters.

There are 10 Starter cards, 8 sites and 2 characters. My current idea is for there to be one and one starter (probably Éomer and Faramir or similar). There are 8 starter sites because there need to be 9 sites for each starter deck and so with the 10 with normal rarities, it makes 18. I expect most of those starter sites to be reprints.

What about power escalation? How do we make cards that are neither weak post-Hunters nor overpowered in Movie?

Just because some Hunters cards are very powerful doesn't mean that a following standard environment would have to be equally powerful. And working with Movie block might actually temper some of the power in The Great Eye. But I wouldn't worry about this.

Thranduil

[Sam, Great Elf Warrior]

Thanks; yeah, that makes sense.

How about this card:

Gondorian Recruit
Companion • Man
Strength: 4
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 5
To play, spot a man.
While this companion has the Aragorn signet, he is strength +4, damage +1, and a knight.
While this companion has the Gandalf signet, he is resistance +3.
"From the Anfalas, the Langstrand far away, a long line of men of many sorts, hunters and herdsmen and men of little villages, scantily equipped..."

Note: This card borrows a bit from one of ket's ideas.


Here's another:

Pride and Despair
Condition • Support Area
At the start of each regroup phase, spot a minion and remove a threat, or discard this condition.
Each unbound companion with resistance less than 4 loses the Gandalf signet (or all signets if that companion has resistance 0).
"So! With the left hand thou wouldst use me for a little while as a shield against Mordor, and with the right bring up this Ranger of the North to supplant me. ... I will not bow to such a one, last of a ragged house long bereft of lordship and dignity."


And in fitting with the theme of the expansion:

•Seeing Stone of Orthanc, Tainted by Sauron
Artifact • Support Area
Stealth.
Maneuver: Exert Aragorn and make X unbound companions with the Aragorn signet strength -1 until the regroup phase to make the Ring-bearer strength +X until the regroup phase (limit +4). Discard this possession.
"'Now in the very hour of his great designs the heir of Isilduir and the Sword are revealed; ... He is not so mighty yet that he is above fear; nay, doubt ever gnaws him.'"
U (so it can be in the starter)

Note: This would, I think, be an appropriate form of Frodo protection for the starter. Alternatively, this could go in the starter (which could use companions with Aragorn signets to reflect the joint attack on the Morannon) while the Faramir starter could be more Ring-bound Ranger-oriented (to reflect their earlier protection of Frodo).

[Thranduil]

Yes! Excellent examples of what we could do with signets.

I think we'll leave a bit more space for comments on the ideas posted so far before moving onto some mechanics ideas.

Here are my main questions:

1) Do we want to make such a large set? Perhaps a smaller Mines of Moria type thing would be easier?

2) What other themes fit the set title? Knowing the answer to this question will really help us fine-tune the mechanics.

[Anvar]

Some thoughts off the top of my head:

1] Site Control - the armies of the great eye spread their shadow over middle-earth.
I know I dislike site control but I wonder if we could do it better. Something that approximates site control in a better way. Manipulation of the Adventure Deck?

2] Huge Armies
Sam and Frodo sneak their way into mount doom while huge armies of orcs clash with the armies of the Free Peoples. Big armies and little people avoiding them unnoticed.

3] Palantiri and the manipulation of information
Revealing and withholding information. Deck and hand manipulation. The corrupting effect of power and the vision of the eye.

[Jerba]

In Star Wars there are caracters that are two "cultures" For example Mara Jade is an Alien and Imperial. Perhaps we can have a few minions that are both and or and or  and or and or and .

Just a brainstorm, but I'm sure we could dream up a new layout for the card to acccomidate both culture icons. That way the cards would be usable by both cultures without too much worry about block.

[Smeagollum]

In Star Wars there are caracters that are two "cultures" For example Mara Jade is an Alien and Imperial. Perhaps we can have a few minions that are both and or and or   and or and or and .

Just a brainstorm, but I'm sure we could dream up a new layout for the card to acccomidate both culture icons. That way the cards would be usable by both cultures without too much worry about block.

Was thinking the same thing. We could give them affinity (as in SW Miniatures). In that case Freca for example can become playable in standard.

Example:

A card

Affinity (gains culture icon): .

Also nice new keyword

[Sam, Great Elf Warrior]

In Star Wars there are caracters that are two "cultures" For example Mara Jade is an Alien and Imperial. Perhaps we can have a few minions that are both and or and or  and or and or and .

Just a brainstorm, but I'm sure we could dream up a new layout for the card to acccomidate both culture icons. That way the cards would be usable by both cultures without too much worry about block.

Was thinking the same thing. We could give them affinity (as in SW Miniatures). In that case Freca for example can become playable in standard.

Example:

A card

Affinity (gains culture icon): .

Also nice new keyword

If we do this, we could also do it with companions, such as a / Merry, a / Pippin, or even an / Arwen or / Eowyn.

Problems I can see include:
 - The risk of broken combos (probably greater with FP cards than Shadow cards).
 - The danger of trying to change too much in a single set (especially if we do the signet thing).

[Smeagollum]

In Star Wars there are caracters that are two "cultures" For example Mara Jade is an Alien and Imperial. Perhaps we can have a few minions that are both and or and or  and or and or and .

Just a brainstorm, but I'm sure we could dream up a new layout for the card to acccomidate both culture icons. That way the cards would be usable by both cultures without too much worry about block.

Was thinking the same thing. We could give them affinity (as in SW Miniatures). In that case Freca for example can become playable in standard.

Example:

A card

Affinity (gains culture icon): .

Also nice new keyword

If we do this, we could also do it with companions, such as a / Merry, a / Pippin, or even an / Arwen or / Eowyn.

Problems I can see include:
 - The risk of broken combos (probably greater with FP cards than Shadow cards).
 - The danger of trying to change too much in a single set (especially if we do the signet thing).

It will mean that we should be carefull, shoudn't we

[Jerba]

Sam, the combos could be a big deal. That is a good point. I would be completely against using double cultured companions. That would get broken fast. Minions may be a little more do-able. I dunno.

[Cw0rk]

The Great Eye could also involve actions related to revealing or looking at hands, or top cards of the draw deck. There could even be a card allowing to look at the opponent's discard pile.

[Sam, Great Elf Warrior]

The Great Eye could also involve actions related to revealing or looking at hands, or top cards of the draw deck. There could even be a card allowing to look at the opponent's discard pile.

In that case, maybe we could have more cards like Eye of Barad-dur (or even EoBD as a reprint, although its rarity might hinder that); not too many, though, lest we make revealing an opponent's hand too dangerous to be worth the trouble. Maybe something like:

•Sauron, The Great Eye
Minion • Maia
Strength: 24
Vitality: 5
Site: 6
Fierce. Twilight.
For each threat and search card you can spot, and for each shadow condition borne by a companion, Sauron is twilight cost -1.
Each time the Free Peoples player reveals this card from your hand, he or she must exert an unbound companion with resistance 4 or higher or add 3 threats; if he or she cannot, you may play this card from hand (its twilight cost is -16).

As you may have noticed, I like the idea of Free Peoples actions that carry an inherent risk or burden with them; I think it fits the theme of this set.

[Smeagollum]

Sam, the combos could be a big deal. That is a good point. I would be completely against using double cultured companions. That would get broken fast. Minions may be a little more do-able. I dunno.

You can also do it other way round, For example:

Affinity: If Freca is played this character's culture Icon is replace as for the remainder of turn.

Affinity: If you can spot Eowyn then Faramir's culture token is replaced as for the remainder of turn.