The Hobbit TCG, revisited [Moria]

[ket_the_jet]

Hey, Thranduil (and anyone else):

I changed the fourth Army to only affect skirmishes with unbound companions. Thoughts?

Everything else was updated, by the way.
-wtk

[ket_the_jet]

Well, it has been a while since I have posted here and this seems to have all but died down. And seeing as the original computer that had these files is now half-bludgeoned with a TPX, it looks like now is as good a time as any to finish what I started.

Alas, I'm not really in the mood to do it now. But I'm going to try to get this done.
-wtk

[Cw0rk]

Nice! Okay time for me to give some comments.

First of all, I think a book like The Hobbit should have a 365 cards set, just like FOTR, TT and ROTK. And it could also have 2 expensions of 122 cards each like the books. So if you want to make a lot of DC, go ahead.

Clarinet and Drums: The twilight cost of this card is very high for what it does. It isn't a really good card to put in any deck. Maybe the first line could be a regroup ability instead which would allow the FP players to heal the companions he exerted at the sanctuary in the next FP phase.

Dwarven Ingenuity is just a stronger version of Their Halls of Stone. If you want it to be as good as THoS you could give the +4 bonus only at mountains. It could also be a +3 bonus and dam +1 bonus at both type of sites. I mean, with a card like this... there are no reasons to use their halls of stone anymore, which is sad.

Our kin from the north: It should just be 'initiative', not 'the initiative'.

How are tokens going to be added on The Black Forest?

Elven Halberd has the same ability has Knight Spear.

The rare Thranduil doesn't look very good. What about: Each time the fellowship moves during the regroup phase, exert a companion (or heal an Elf if the fellowship moved to a forest).

Before I comment on your Smeagol/Gollum culture, I haven't read Bilbo the Hobbit but isn't Gollum only an evil character in the book? Did he help the FP at all? If not, why did you make FP cards for this culture?

All other cards looks great. My favorites are Gloin, Kili and Fili (nice idea to combine them on a single card), Thorin KUtM, The First and Second Army.

Other reviews will be later.

[ket_the_jet]

First of all, I think a book like The Hobbit should have a 365 cards set...

[indignation]#$&*@! that.[/indignation]

Haha. Really though. I mean, I started this in the middle of November, it got set aside, I've brought it back up and basically have to do the second half of the set from scratch. It is 200 cards right now, and that is more than plenty for me.

As for your other thoughts, thanks for looking at these cards. I should probably review what I have before I move on (again, basically starting over). So for your thoughts.

To answer a few questions (or respond to your thoughts):

How are tokens going to be added on The Black Forest?

I thought that tokens would be an important part of this set. There are several cards, such as Mirkwood Dungeon and Troop of Mirkwood Archers that reinforce culture tokens. Also, the rare Gandalf in this set is ridiculously bad #$&*@! and deals with tokens specifically.

Elven Halberd has the same ability has Knight Spear.

I don't see this as a problem.

The rare Thranduil doesn't look very good. What about: Each time the fellowship moves during the regroup phase, exert a companion (or heal an Elf if the fellowship moved to a forest).

The rare Thranduil has gone through so many changes I don't even remember what it started as. But I want to stick with the idea of him supporting and screwing the other cultures. A risk/reward companion, like Denethor, Steward of the City.

Before I comment on your Smeagol/Gollum culture, I haven't read Bilbo the Hobbit but isn't Gollum only an evil character in the book? Did he help the FP at all? If not, why did you make FP cards for this culture?

This set is based both upon the books and the current interpretations of the books that will be used in the movie. Word on the street (as of whenever I first posted stuff) was that he will have a few sympathetic scenes as well.

Plus, it is quite hilarious to read early editions of The Hobbit where, upon finding out that Bilbo has the Ring, Gollum says, "Oh, you've bested me ole' chap. Let me show you the way out of this tunnel." (That's not word for word. But that was how it happened).

All other cards looks great. My favorites are Gloin, Kili and Fili (nice idea to combine them on a single card), Thorin KUtM, The First and Second Army.

Thanks, and I look forward to other reviews!
-wtk

[Sam, Great Elf Warrior]

Interesting. I made some Hobbit cards once (wish I could find them; they were on an old computer), but I only had a shadow culture. But I did have both FP and shadow cards.

[Cw0rk]

I thought that tokens would be an important part of this set. There are several cards, such as Mirkwood Dungeon and Troop of Mirkwood Archers that reinforce culture tokens. Also, the rare Gandalf in this set is ridiculously bad #$&*@! and deals with tokens specifically.

I'm 99% sure that reinforcing a token means adding a token on a card that already has a token on it. The problem with your Black Forest is that it doesn't have a token on it, so you can't reinforce tokens. Maybe there should be a line that say 'When you play Black Forest, add a token on it.' and then you could change the 'spot 3 tokens' to 4.

[ket_the_jet]

I'm 99% sure that reinforcing a token means adding a token on a card that already has a token on it.

Are you sure about this? I'm going to go through and make a few changes to some existing cards in the set. I'll repost the changes and then we can move on!
-wtk

[ket_the_jet]

I took your suggestion on Dwarven Ingenuity, c-work. You were right--I don't want to make Their Halls of Stone inferior.

Dwarven Ingenuity
Event • Skirmish
Make a Dwarf strength +2 (or strength +4 if at a mountain site).
H C 10

As for The Black Forest, I've changed it just a little bit:

•The Black Forest
Condition • Support Area
When you play this condition, you may discard a card from hand. If you do, place an token on this card.
While you can spot three tokens on this card, each site on the adventure path is a forest.
H R 24

Do you think discarding one card is enough? I think two cards might be more appropriate, but I'll let you judge.

I changed Elven Halberd to be similar, but not the same, as Knight's Spear. Thoughts?

Elven Halberd
Possession • Hand Weapon
Strength +1
Skirmish: While bearer is at a forest, add a threat to make bearer strength +1.
H C 27

I didn't change Thranduil, King of Mirkwood on the title page, but what are your thoughts on this? Again, going with the high-risk, high-reward type character:

•Thranduil, King of Mirkwood
Companion • Elf
Strength 7, Vitality 3
To play, spot an Elf.
Each character's twilight cost is +1.
While at a forest, each character is strength +1.
H R 35

I slightly changed the first line of Corruption. I don't know if it was necessary, but I changed it to "a character" instead of Smeagol. Not that there are any other Free Peoples characters, but...

•Corruption (SH)
Condition • Support Area
While Gollum is skirmishing a character, he is damage +1.
Regroup: Discard this condition to return a minion to your hand.
H U 40

I thought about a slight change with this card, but I haven't decided if I like it:

•Gollum, Sickly Pale (SH)
Minion
Strength 5, Vitality 4
When you play Gollum, reinforce a Shadow culture token.
Skirmish: Exert Gollum twice to make him strength +X, where X is the number of free peoples culture tokens you can spot.
H R 44

New text:
When you play Gollum, each player may reinforce a culture token.
Skirmish: Exert Gollum twice to make him strength +X, where X is the number of free peoples culture tokens you can spot.

Minor change, made Smeagol, Lake-Dweller ringed resistance. That way he doesn't have to be your Ring-Bearer.

Surprisingly, I got through the and cards without any big upsets. That's nice.
-wtk

[Sam, Great Elf Warrior]

I'm 99% sure that reinforcing a token means adding a token on a card that already has a token on it.

Are you sure about this? I'm going to go through and make a few changes to some existing cards in the set. I'll repost the changes and then we can move on!
-wtk

Yeah I'm pretty sure c10ckw0rk has it right, otherwise you could "reinforce a token" by adding tokens to random conditions like The Saga of Elendil or Preparations (which you could still remove for "remove a token"-type cards), which could lead to some weirdness physically.

[ket_the_jet]

Yeah, but why shouldn't you be able to put a token on whatever you #$&*@! please?

Edit: I just want to say, your rationale was "You can't because it looks funny."
-wtk

[Sam, Great Elf Warrior]

Not so much because it would look funny, but because the game isn't equipped for it. If you have the default setup of red and black tokens, and place a token on The Saga of Elendil which is borne by Ring-bearer Isildur, which color do you use: red (which would be confused for a wound) or black (which would be confused for a burden)? It's not an absolute barrier, but it's reason enough for Decipher to want to disallow it (Decipher doesn't like doing things that might confuse new players, which is why it went with the X-list over errata).

Additionally, the very word "reinforce" implies that a token is already there. If they'd wanted to let you place a token on anything, they would have said something like "add a token" rather than "reinforce a token."

[Thranduil]

Are you sure about this? I'm going to go through and make a few changes to some existing cards in the set. I'll repost the changes and then we can move on!
-wtk

That's the definition of reinforcing: place a token on a card that already has a token on it.

Do you think discarding one card is enough? I think two cards might be more appropriate, but I'll let you judge.

I think it's fine.

Elven Halberd
Possession • Hand Weapon
Strength +1
Skirmish: While bearer is at a forest, add a threat to make bearer strength +1.
H C 27

Yeah not bad. Perhaps instead "While bearer is skirmishing a wounded minion"?

•Thranduil, King of Mirkwood
Companion • Elf
Strength 7, Vitality 3
To play, spot an Elf.
Each character's twilight cost is +1.
While at a forest, each character is strength +1.
H R 35

I think I'd like the first one to be "non-[Elven]" maybe?

•Corruption (SH)
Condition • Support Area
While Gollum is skirmishing a character, he is damage +1.
Regroup: Discard this condition to return a minion to your hand.
H U 40

Yeah good change.

When you play Gollum, each player may reinforce a culture token.
Skirmish: Exert Gollum twice to make him strength +X, where X is the number of free peoples culture tokens you can spot.

Interesting. I'm not sure adding tokens on FP cards is worth it though for +1 strength.

Thranduil

[ket_the_jet]

That's the definition of reinforcing: place a token on a card that already has a token on it.

That's the definition of reinforcing in the real world. There's nothing in the CRD about that in the game world.

I think I'd like the first one to be "non-[Elven]" maybe?

Well, in decks with Alliance Reforged (as I mentioned, these are supposed to be Movie Block eligible) or other army types, I am afraid he could be too strong. I want to give him a clear drawback. I just can't think of one that is good enough because otherwise he will only be used in -only decks. I just don't want that.

Interesting. I'm not sure adding tokens on FP cards is worth it though for +1 strength.

Well, that's why I thought to ask. But okay. I'll keep him as he is and we can always change him later.
-wtk

[Cw0rk]

•The Black Forest
Condition • Support Area
When you play this condition, you may discard a card from hand. If you do, place an token on this card.
While you can spot three tokens on this card, each site on the adventure path is a forest.
H R 24

I don't really like the first line. Why would the FP player use Black Forest and not want to add a token on it? You could either force the FP to discard a card to add the token or simply have a token on it automaticly when you play it.

EDIT: The new Thranduil is pretty cool BTW.

[ket_the_jet]

Thanks. I guess finding balance with the Black Forest is priority numero uno.

I'll try to think some things through and we'll revisit this.
-wtk