The Hobbit TCG, revisited [Moria]

[ket_the_jet]

Wow, the sloppiest post I have made yet. I am going to make some minor changes if you don't mind looking again.

A few other thoughts:
-Aragorn with a limit? But you hate limits!
-Big faux pas on my part with Army of Dale...compare the first post (your reply with quote) to what it is now.
-The Emeralds represent the pact with the archers of Mirkwood.
-Master of Laketown only plays rivers or lakes.
-The keyword, "lake-dweller" was created in lieu of me creating a new race (which wouldn't have a cool symbol on this site).
-Yes, there will be Elves. It is the Wizard culture now, not the Gandalf culture (hence it is last alphabetically).
-I built in Armor for Bard when skirmishing unique minions. Too good?
-A note about the set so far, the common Thorin will end up being a Premium (starter deck) card. Bringing back Starters the way they should have continued!

To people other than Thranduil: What do I have to get you to do for reviews?!
-wtk

[ket_the_jet]

If no one else is going to review, I will post the next culture. But I'll give it another day or two...poor Thranduil has been awfully busy being the only person giving me feedback!
-wtk

[Thranduil]

Don't know what to say man - I love reviewing your cards! Have a !

[ket_the_jet]

Haha...thanks. Anyone know where Dain has been?
-wtk

[ket_the_jet]

Okay, it's been a while, but here's . Some of you (Thranduil) who have kept up with this set may have been expecting ; however, I have determined that Isengard minions would not be flavorful. Thus, I have taken the minions I originally had as and made them . I know, I know, I hate the new cultures too, but remember this set is supposed to slide into Movie Block, not Standard. So in these sets will represent any Orcs that weren't associated with Moria and have more multi-cultural Shadow support, whereas will be much more focused. Anyways, here we go.


At the Ready
Event • Skirmish
Wound any number of  minions to make a minion strength strength +1 for each minion wounded in this way (limit +5).
H C 71

Badgering Orc
Minion • Orc
Strength 6, Vitality 2
Site 4
Skirmish: Discard a possession to discard a possession borne by an unbound companion this minion is skirmishing.
H U 72

Beastly Troll
Minion • Troll
Strength 16, Vitality 4
Site 4
Fierce.
At an underground site, this minion's twilight cost is -3.
H U 73

Black Bowman
Minion • Orc
Strength 6, Vitality 1
Archer.
H C 74

•Black Chasm Commander
Minion • Orc
Strength 10, Vitality 3
Site 4
When you play this minion, you may play a card from your discard pile.
H R 75

Burrowing Goblin
Strength 6, Vitality 1
Minion • Orc
Site 4
When you play this minion, you may play a possession from your draw deck.
H R 76

Denizens Enraged (Reprint)
Skirmish: Make a Orc strength +1 for each other Orc you spot (limit +4).
H U 77

Discouraged
Condition • Support Area
Strength -1
Regroup: Discard a Orc to transfer this condition to an unbound companion.
If bearer is a Dwarf, bearer loses all damage bonuses and is unable to gain damage bonuses.
H U 78

The Fourth Army
Condition • Support Area
To play, spot a minion.
Skirmish events and special abilities cannot be used in skirmishes involving unbound companions. Discard this condition at the start of the regroup phase.
H R 79

Frightening Orc
Strength 4, Vitality 1
Site 4
The Fellowship archery total is -1.
H C 80

Lost in the Dark
Event • Shadow
Discard 5 minions to discard a condition.
H R 81

Misty Mountain Archer
Minion • Orc
Strength 8, Vitalty 2
Archer.
Each archer skirmishing this minion is strength -2.
H U 82

•Misty Mountain Captain
Strength 12, Vitality 2
Site 4
Each time you play a minion stacked on a condition, add .
H R 83

Misty Mountain Fighter
Minion • Orc
Strength 7, Vitality 1
Site 4
H C 84

Misty Mountain Regular
Minion • Orc
Strength 5, Vitality 1
Site 4
When you play this minion, spot a minion to add .
H U 85

•Misty Mountain Store-room
Condition • Support Area
Response: If a possession is about to be discarded during the skirmish phase, stack that possession here.
Maneuver: Discard three possessions here to discard a card borne by an unbound companion.
H R 86

Misty Mountain Swordsman
Minion • Orc
Strength 5, Vitality 1
Site 4
Each companion skirmishing this minion does not gain strength bonuses from weapons.
H C 87

Misty Mountain Shaman
Minion • Orc
Strength 4, Vitality 3
Site 4
Response: If a Orc is about to take a wound, remove to prevent that wound.
H U 88

Moria Guard
Minion • Orc
Strength 4, Vitality 1
When this minion is discarded, you may add .
H C 89

Moria Sword
Possession • Hand Weapon
Strength +1
Bearer must be a minion.
While skirmishing an unbound companion, bearer is strength +2.
H C 90

Sallet
Possession • Helm
Bearer must be a Orc.
Bearer cannot be overwhelmed unless his strength is tripled.
H C 91

Steal Away
Event • Maneuver
Search.
Discard X minions to exert X companions.
H U 92

Steel Breastplate
Possession • Armor
Strength +1.
Bearer must be a Orc.
Bearer cannot take wounds.
H R 93

Tunnel Away
Condition • Support Area
Search.
Regroup: Stack your minion on this condition.
Shadow: Remove to play a minion stacked on this condition.
H R 94

• Twisting Tunnels

Event • Shadow or Regroup
Discard a minion to play a minion from your draw deck.
H R 95

[sharkey]

I think you are a little one-sided with the dwarven, only tokens. But I suppose if this were to be the only expansion, that would make sense.

[ket_the_jet]

I think you are a little one-sided with the dwarven, only tokens. But I suppose if this were to be the only expansion, that would make sense.

Thanks for your response. You are the first person that is not Thranduil or myself to post here in a while.

Do you care to elaborate on your response? One thing that I knew going into this set was that culture tokens would be very important. While this set is meant to be compatible with Movie Block sets, it is also meant to stand alone which means that no alternate Ring-Bearers would be used (i.e., no Gimli, Bearer of Grudges). Of course, being The Hobbit,, the only Ring-bearer in the set was Bilbo until I decided to make one Smeagol Ring-bearer.

Considering the sample is just 20 cards, I think it is pretty diverse. Yes, token based, but it has healing, strength bonuses, a few damage bonuses and one defender bonus in there. It also has some card recycling with You Go, My Lad! I would say for a base set, it kind of has a good amount of stuff!
-wtk

[sharkey]

Yes, it's good. But let's examine the main ways to play the dwarven  culture (I would help with the others, but as I have played dwarves, and so has my main opponent, my entire 8 year career, I know them best):

1: Token Based (Cards like My Axe is Notched). You've got that one covered.
2: Card Stacking (Cards like Here is Good Rock and Hall of our Fathers), got that one covered well too!
3: Wounding (Cards like Quick as may Be and Here lies Balin, Son of Fundin): Meant to be palyed with elves, wounds minions in the manuver phase and compliments elven archery well.
4: Cycle/Recycle (Cards like NPNS and Gimli, OG): Cards that allow you to draw cards until you find the ones you need.
5: Mill (Cards like Then What Are We Waiting For? and NTAD): Another Culture meant to be played with elves, this strategy focuses on discarding the opponent's cards until they deck out.
6: Event Based (Cards Like Flurry of Blows and Honed): Strengthening dwarves be playing events. Usually not a main strategy.
7: Tales (Cards like Dain Ironfoot and GKoMP): Tales that make the opponent's life nasty, also usually used to augment another strategy, and not stand alone.
8: Hunter (Cards like Gimli, Eager Hunter): Self explanatory.

You have about 5 supported, and only 3 supported well. Good for a base set, and for 20 cards. But if you were planning on a few more expansions, it might help to lay the groundwork for the rest of these.

[ket_the_jet]

First of all, as explained in the introductory post, Hunter, toil, muster, lurker and any other Shadows and beyond keywords were not going to be included in this set.

Secondly, from a flavor standpoint, the Dwarves in The Hobbit weren't out wounding people pre-skirmish anyways. They really only fought once in the entire book with a few minor skirmishes thrown in (actually, they were kind of #$&*@!--hiding in trees and getting captured three different times!)

It would probably be a good idea to add the Tale keyword into a few cards. That I do agree with. But I would say that for the set they do a lot in those 20 cards and that the balance of those cards is pretty good. Of course they do not have mega-condition removal because isn't supposed to do that.

I've also been playing Dwarves since FoTR block, but I've also played enough of the other cultures to see how they all interact. Keep in mind that in The Hobbit, the Dwarves were interacting with Gandalf and Bilbo, not Elves. Wait patiently for those cultures and you might see a few tricks I've unraveled that may do some things you are mentioning, but I would say for the set, it is good where it stands.

I may throw the Tale keyword on a few cards, but it would seem like this Gloin is better than the Mines of Moria version anyways!
-wtk

[sharkey]

Yes, it's good. But let's examine the main ways to play the dwarven  culture (I would help with the others, but as I have played dwarves, and so has my main opponent, my entire 8 year career, I know them best):

1: Token Based (Cards like My Axe is Notched). You've got that one covered.
2: Card Stacking (Cards like Here is Good Rock and Hall of our Fathers), got that one covered well too!
3: Wounding (Cards like Quick as may Be and Here lies Balin, Son of Fundin): Meant to be palyed with elves, wounds minions in the manuver phase and compliments elven archery well.
4: Cycle/Recycle (Cards like NPNS and Gimli, OG): Cards that allow you to draw cards until you find the ones you need.
5: Mill (Cards like Then What Are We Waiting For? and NTAD): Another Culture meant to be played with elves, this strategy focuses on discarding the opponent's cards until they deck out.
6: Event Based (Cards Like Flurry of Blows and Honed): Strengthening dwarves be playing events. Usually not a main strategy.
7: Tales (Cards like Dain Ironfoot and GKoMP): Tales that make the opponent's life nasty, also usually used to augment another strategy, and not stand alone.
8: Hunter (Cards like Gimli, Eager Hunter): Self explanatory.

You have about 5 supported, and only 3 supported well. Good for a base set, and for 20 cards. But if you were planning on a few more expansions, it might help to lay the groundwork for the rest of these.

Yeah, let's take a look:

1. Covered.
2. Covered.
3. Not Covered.
4. 1/2 Covered
5. Not Covered.
6. Covered.
7. Going to Cover.
8. N/A

So there you have it!

[ket_the_jet]

I appreciate the input and hope you continue reviewing the set. But I think you will find, specifically when the (which I have renamed "Wizard") and cultures come out that much of what you are concerned about will be answered!
-wtk

[sharkey]

Good!

[Thranduil]

At the Ready
Event • Skirmish
Wound X minions. Make a minion strength +X, where X is the number of minions you wound (limit 5).
H C 71

"Wound any number of minions to make a minion strength strength +1 for each minion wounded in this way (limit +5)." This does not feel common, but is a very interesting idea.

Badgering Orc
Minion • Orc
Strength 6, Vitality 2
Site 4
Skirmish: Discard a possession to discard a possession borne by an unbound companion this minion is skirmishing.
H U 72

Hmmm... Maybe doing it too many times is too much. How about "At the start of each skirmish involving this minion, you may discard a possession to..." Also could do with a better title, but I'm not really one to talk.

Beastly Troll
Minion • Troll
Strength 16, Vitality 4
Site 4
Fierce.
At an underground site, Beastly Troll's twilight cost is -3.
H U 73

You would normally say "this minion" if it's non-unique. Seems fine.

Black Bowman
Minion • Orc
Strength 6, Vitality 1
Archer.
H C 74

This guy is quite good, isn't he? Compare to Goblin Bowman who at the end of the day is for 1 wound which is a good deal.

•Black Chasm Commander
Minion • Orc
Strength 10, Vitality 3
Site 4
When you play this minion, you may play a card from your discard pile.
H R 75

Very swish.

Burrowing Goblin
Strength 6, Vitality 1
Site 4
When you play this minion, you may play a possession from your draw deck.
H R 76

Needs a type and sub-type, but otherwise looks good.

Discouraged
Condition • Support Area
Strength -1
Regroup: Discard a Orc to transfer this condition to an unbound companion.
If bearer is a Dwarf, bearer is strength -1.
H U 78

I'd prefer some targetted Dwarf hate, something like "If bearer is a Dwarf, he or she loses all damage bonuses and cannot gain damage bonuses."

The Fourth Army
Condition • Support Area
To play, spot a minion.
Skirmish events and special abilities cannot be used. Discard this condition at the start of the regroup phase.
H R 79

THIS IS SICK! Compare to Saruman's Snows. Surely could do with some toning down, and this is about ninety times better than any of the FP versions in this cycle.

Frightening Orc
Strength 4, Vitality 1
Site 4
The Fellowship archery total is -1.
H C 80

Nice!

Lost in the Dark
Event • Shadow
Discard 5 minions to discard a condition.
H R 81

Cool. Too expensive though - could cost to be competitive.

Misty Mountain Archer
Minion • Orc
Strength 8, Vitalty 2
Archer.
While skirmishing an archer, this minion is strength +2.
H U 82

Yeah cool. Perhaps "Each archer skirmishing this minion is strength -2."

•Misty Mountain Captain
Strength 12, Vitality 2
Site 4
Each time you play a minion stacked on a condition, add .
H R 83

Fun times!

Misty Mountain Fighter
Minion • Orc
Strength 7, Vitality 1
Site 4
H C 84

Not sure why I reviewed this one to be honest...

Misty Mountain Regular
Minion • Orc
Strength 5, Vitality 1
Site 4
When you play this minion, spot a minion to add .
H U 85

Yeah good Goblin Runner reprint.

•Misty Mountain Store-room
Condition • Support Area
Response: If a possession is about to be discarded, stack that possession here.
Maneuver: Discard three possessions here to discard a card borne by an unbound companion.
H R 86

Hmmm... I don't love the fact that everything can be automatically stacked there, but I think it's probably fine.

Misty Mountain Swordsman
Minion • Orc
Strength 5, Vitality 1
Site 4
Each companion skirmishing this minion does not gain strength bonuses from weapons.
H C 87

Sure. Could be strength 6.

Misty Mountain Shaman
Minion • Orc
Strength 4, Vitality 2
Site 4
Response: If a Orc is about to take a wound, remove to prevent that wound.
H U 88

I think I might make him and vitality 3, but yeah fair enough.

Moria Guard
Minion • Orc
Strength 4, Vitality 1
When this minion is discarded, you may add .
H C 89

This feels like a rare ability. An awesome rare would be a cost minion that had "When this minion is discarded, you may add ." Also, I thought I'd make sure you know the difference between being discarded and being killed.

Moria Sword
Possession • Hand Weapon
Strength +1
Bearer must be a minion.
While skirmishing an unbound companion, bearer is strength +2.
H C 90

Sure it's okay.

Sallet
Possession • Helm
Bearer must be a Orc.
Bearer cannot be overwhelmed unless his strength is tripled.
H C 91

What is a sallet? Fine card.

Steal Away
Event • Maneuver
Search.
Discard X minions to exert X companions.
H U 92

Yeah sure.

Steel Breastplate
Possession • Armor
Bearer must be a Orc.
Bearer cannot take wounds.
H R 93

For a rare, it needs more (like a strength and/or vitality boost and/or other ability). For a un/common it's fine.

Tunnel Away
Condition • Support Area
Search.
Regroup: Stack a minion on this condition.
Shadow: Remove to play a minion stacked on this condition.
H R 94

I think it should probably only stack your minions, and removing only to get a guy is very good. I might tie it in with the rest of your theme and have something like "Discard a minion from play to play a minion stacked on this condition" and maybe a small qualifier like "and add ."

Twisting Tunnels
Condition • Support Area
Shadow: Discard a minion to play a minion from your draw deck.
H R 95

I think this should be an event that costs - as a condition it's crazy! Or it should discard the condition to trigger.

Thranduil

[sharkey]

About sallet: Don't think this will work. Most of those minions that would have trouble getting overwhelmed are 1 or 2 vitality anyway, so against a dwarf or elf deck, that's useless. Along with many dual culture decks. Needs some support, like person skirmishing bearer loses damage bonuses, or can only take wounds in the skirmish phase, or is also vitality +1.

The Fourth army is fine, since it applies to both sides. Most of these minions are weak enough that that would be a problem to play, and it would reduce the strength of the stronger minions.

Agreed on twisting tunnels. Or maybe a regroup phase action?

Also, combining sallet and Iron Breasplate makes a minion invincible. I would recommend having both a helm or both an armor, unless that was the goal.

[ket_the_jet]

Thanks guys for your thoughts. A few responses:

-The title of Badgering Orc was to be the guy who captures the Dwarves and taunts them a bit...taking their weapons. But a better title could be in order...in fact, Taunting Orc could work!

-Lost In the Dark has to be very expensive, because I am giving something that they did not have before. Condition discarding makes very strong (imagine knocking off that Tale of Gil-Galad sitting on Greenleaf or Song of Durin). But maybe and the discarding requirements are bogus...I'll look it over.

-On Moria Guard: The idea is that he couples with Lost in the Dark or Twisting Tunnels to add twilight.

-A sallet is a type of helm that is most closely related to the ones worn in Moria (in the movies). Particularly, see the visored Sallet photo!

-I understand that armor and a helm makes the Orc "invincible" but I needed more possessions and the good Hand Weapons already exist (Goblin Spear, Moria Axe, and the ever-famous Goblin Scimitar). I cannot decide which one, but I want to make one (the Sallet, maybe) bearable by a minion so the Troll can wear it, but I guess the Trolls in Moria walked around close to naked and I don't want the Balrog to get the stuff.

-On Tunnel Away, yeah, it should only stack one's own minions. I never really play multi-player so I didn't take that into consideration.

I'll do some changing in the next day or two. to both for speedy responses!
-wtk